Curse

Nim · Jun 13, 2005, 02:03 PM // 14:03

To Mormegil...

Main Entry: idiot sa·vant
Pronunciation: 'E-"dyO-sä-'vän; 'id-E-&t-s&-'vänt, -'vant
Function: noun
Inflected Form: plural idiots savants /-"dyO-sä-'vän(z); -&ts-s&-'vänt(s), -'vant(s)/ or idiot savants
: a mentally retarded person who exhibits exceptional skill or brilliance in some limited field (as mathematics or music)

The name is the colorful literary term for someone with autism, a mental handicap. And you think its a compliment to call someone that?

I'm not saying anything is wrong with that as a guild name, however, under the same ruling there should be nothing wrong with We Tod Id as well. Anyone you tries to use semantics to say otherwise is being hypocritical.

Quote:

originally posted by inde
We don't ban for jollies. Locked.

We...???? Is this site somehow officially related to Anet? The admins of this site are the admins for Guildwars? That would explain the locking of every thread that criticises Anet for the name banning. It also explains why they listen to the 35 forum trolls instead of realizing that there are 500000 happy non-bitching non-complaining tolerant players.

Caco-Cola · Jun 13, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

Send that defination to Anet, they might not know what an 'Idiot savant' is.

Then tell them how it offends you and tell them the story of your long lost mentally handicapped brother or something like that.

Edit: And I'm not trying to get the guild iQ (I think that's their tag) banned or anything but Anet should at least be fair in their discrimination.

Longshaft · Jun 13, 2005, 02:52 PM // 14:52

I had an idiot servant once. She couldn’t wash the windows worth a damn, but she looked good in a lil mini maid uniform. hmmm. or maybe she wasnt female, but a male gamer who just liked the "feel" of a female character.

Nim · Jun 13, 2005, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longshaft

I had an idiot servant once. She couldn’t wash the windows worth a damn, but she looked good in a lil mini maid uniform. hmmm. or maybe she wasnt female, but a male gamer who just liked the "feel" of a female character.

LOL

Algren Cole · Jun 13, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

you need to realize that literary terms have lost literary meaning over time due to socially accepted uses. it's socially accepted fact that Idiot Savant no longer references Mentally Retarded persons.

Caco-Cola · Jun 13, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

it's socially accepted fact that Idiot Savant no longer references Mentally Retarded persons.

And that's exactly why the dictionary defines it as mentally retarded, right?

That's like saying that over time the words ****, gay, etc. haven't become derogatory since a lot of people use it.

Epinephrine · Jun 13, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

you need to realize that literary terms have lost literary meaning over time due to socially accepted uses. it's socially accepted fact that Idiot Savant no longer references Mentally Retarded persons.

What? Lost meaning to whom? Still means it to me. That's what the "idiot" part means... And yes, there will be people who will argue that it is used in other contexts, but the generalization of terms and inclusion of variant meanings in dictionaries is something to be opposed - while some argue that a dictionary should trace the meaning of words as they evolve, dictionaries are paradoxically also used as references for what a word truly means - it can't be both - when you have a "true" definition that actually expands to include any use of the word then any word definition can be "correct".

CtrlAltDel · Jun 13, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

i think it is less demeaning now than it used to be

but its what the guild is calling THEMSELVES, if thats what they want, who cares

btw this thread should be closed anyway

Saerden · Jun 13, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

And that's exactly why the dictionary defines it as mentally retarded, right?

That's like saying that over time the words ****, gay, etc. haven't become derogatory since a lot of people use it.

What gay [happy] event, you even provided prove. Meanings change ...

Nim · Jun 13, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

you need to realize that literary terms have lost literary meaning over time due to socially accepted uses. it's socially accepted fact that Idiot Savant no longer references Mentally Retarded persons.

I believe you have that a little backwards, originally the literary term did not refer to autism, when now a days the commonly accepted usage, along with one of the official definitions is precisely that, an autistic individual.

Algren Cole · Jun 13, 2005, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

What? Lost meaning to whom? Still means it to me. That's what the "idiot" part means... And yes, there will be people who will argue that it is used in other contexts, but the generalization of terms and inclusion of variant meanings in dictionaries is something to be opposed - while some argue that a dictionary should trace the meaning of words as they evolve, dictionaries are paradoxically also used as references for what a word truly means - it can't be both - when you have a "true" definition that actually expands to include any use of the word then any word definition can be "correct".

so you only use the term 'idiot' to define a person with a mental handicap? you've never called a friend an 'idiot' knowing full well that he wasn't mentally retarded?? Socially accepted uses for words are very very common. Take into consideration words like 'gay'...which has adapted to a derogatory term for homosexual men....originally it was a a term used to define a state of jubilance. Or the term 'faggot' which was adapted from 'fagot'....an English term used to define a bundle of sticks....Social definitions and uses change over time...to a point where the words/terms being used aren't related to their original definitions in any way.....Most people don't use words correctly...they use them in socially accepted situations....we call this dialect, slang, or provincialism.

DrSLUGFly · Jun 13, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

we call somebody an idiot and nobody gets offended except the person insulted. How is calling someone an idiot derogatory towards somebody who is mentally retarded? How is calling somebody lame derogatory towards people who don't have full use of their legs? Idiot Savant is something that I think doesn't carry with it an insult. We Todd Did, seems to have a tongue in cheek "laughing at you, not with you" feel to it. I think Idiot Savant is a good name for a guild, and a clever name for a character since it not only implies a handicap but also implies a gift. Flaming Caunt? I don't know... there's nothing of taste in that really... Perhaps the mod was speaking on behalf of the GW mod team without justification, but I'm sure that the GW mod team would echo Inde's words, I'm quite sure the team doesn't ban for jollies.

Caco-Cola · Jun 13, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

What gay [happy] event, you even provided prove. Meanings change ...

Ok so then gay means lame now also.

Cause whenever someone thinks somethings lame, or stupid, they go 'man that's gay'.

So gays no longer have a reason to get offended.

Right....

Quote:

i think it is less demeaning now than it used to be

but its what the guild is calling THEMSELVES, if thats what they want, who cares

By that same token the guy named HIMSELF 'We todd id' which sounds out to be 'Retarded' so he's labeling HIMSELF as retarded, not others.

Thus the name should be unbanned.

Algren Cole · Jun 13, 2005, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

Ok so then gay means lame now also.

Cause whenever someone thinks somethings lame, or stupid, they go 'man that's gay'.

that's EXACTLY what I mean by socially accepted definitions. Gay CAN mean lame...that's the entire point.

Caco-Cola · Jun 13, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

So what point are you trying to make? That words change over time?

Fine, retarded means lame too.

Why?

Let's say Person A gets a homework assignment he doesn't like. He goes 'man, what a retarded homework assignment.'

I guarantee you he's not saying that the assignment is mentally handicapped, but that the assignment is instead lame, stupid, and his dissatisfaction towards it.

Thus the guy wasn't even labelling himself as mentally handicapped, just lame or stupid.

Nim · Jun 13, 2005, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Call someone and idiot savant in the workplace and see how long it takes the by standing mother of the autistic child in the next cube to file a complaint.

But we are not in the workplace and we shouldn't have to be that politically correct in an on line game. People so easily offended by names like We Tod Id might want to reconsider their choice of leisure activities. Massive Online Multiplayer games are not really meant for people with low tolerances to disrespectful behavior or mildly offensive names, I might suggest solitaire for these type of computer gamers.

and BTW... I consider this an Intelligent and use full discussion, people freely disussing what or what isnt offensive to them. However I'll bet it's locked soon for some unknown reason, they always lock these threads.

Diplo · Jun 13, 2005, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caco-Cola

By that same token the guy named HIMSELF 'We todd id' which sounds out to be 'Retarded' so he's labeling HIMSELF as retarded, not others.

He's using a name that makes fun of the stereotypical way some people with disabilities speak. That's hardly clever, is it? Just because you are labeling yourself as something doesn't mean that won't cause offence to others. I could call myself some "Stupid F**ker". Would that be acceptable simply because I'm labelling myself as such?

Firax · Jun 13, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Why not just make names with no hidden meaning at all?

~Firax

Caco-Cola · Jun 13, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Sure, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I mean if you want people going 'hey you stupid (explative)' then whatever.

Diplo · Jun 13, 2005, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nim

People so easily offended by names like We Tod Id might want to reconsider their choice of leisure activities.

I guess people offended by cheats, bots and offensive message spammers shouldn't play either? I guess women who don't want to be subject to sexist remarks shouldn't play internet games? I guess people with disablities should be laughed at rather than encouraged to partake? Yeah, let's not enforce any rules and let the lamers out their run wild. That's the kind of game I want to play...